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Discussion Board & Information Site for Foreign Teachers in Thailand » Visas and Extensions » Some advice regarding working on a Non-O ME needed....

Some advice regarding working on a Non-O ME needed....

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Sirchai

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I'm on a Non-O ME, based on marriage and just came back from Cambodia and got my new 90 day stamp in my passport.

 But right before I left, I was told by my agency to go to the local Immigration with all the paperwork. I'm assuming that the local Immigration would have issued a Non-B, of course running together with the contract? Am I correct here?

 The reasons for keeping my Non-O were simple. 1.I'm still on probation and would I lose my job, my visa would be gone as well/.

I'm afraid that the same would happen if the agency's losing the contract with the school.

 What's the requirement for people on Non-O visas ( not the retirement O-visa) regarding the Immigration?

Would I have to show them my original degree and transcript, provisional teacher's license, etc. or could I apply for my work permit now without visiting the Immigration?

I'm aware that some laws have changed and Immigration now want to see the original degree, transcripts and waiver, when applying for a Non-B.

 I'd deeply appreciate if somebody could explain the difference between a Non-O and Non -B when it comes to employment.

 Am I right when I keep doing my visa runs to be on the safe side?

  Could the agency really put pressure on me to go to the local Immigration?

  Thanks a lot for any useful input. Thanks a lot in advance.

 P.S. Sorry when I wasn't using extension of stay. thank you

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"Am I right when I keep doing my visa runs to be on the safe side?"

Absolutely !! As you said, if the job goes - no need to worry about being able to stay in the country.

Hey_ewe

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I know some teachers who are on Non O visas based on marriage. They have a work permit as resource person or similar title. They don't have a degree and need some kind of letter granting permission from the local education office. I believe that means that their visa isn't dependant on employment.

It's not a straightforward process and the school only does it or them because they are experienced teachers, who have been at the school for a long time.

I have never worked through an agency here in Thailand but I have seen the way they treat their staff so I would stay well clear.

gungchang

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Hey_ewe wrote:I have never worked through an agency here in Thailand but I have seen the way they treat their staff so I would stay well clear.
Things may have changed, but BFITS wasn't bad, and they represented a school in Buriram.
Other agencies I know of are not so good.  I think that your aversion to most agencies is well founded.

Sirchai

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Thanks a lot for taking the time. thumbs up 2

Sirchai

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gungchang wrote:
Hey_ewe wrote:I have never worked through an agency here in Thailand but I have seen the way they treat their staff so I would stay well clear.
Things may have changed, but BFITS wasn't bad, and they represented a school in Buriram.
Other agencies I know of are not so good.  I think that your aversion to most agencies is well founded.

Thanks.-

Sirchai

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1stevec wrote:"Am I right when I keep doing my visa runs to be on the safe side?"

Absolutely !! As you said, if the job goes - no need to worry about being able to stay in the country.


Thanks for your time.

Please ask some people how visas ( if they even care) are being handled at certain institutions.

Just in case, I have a back up plan. G'day.- weeping

Sirchai

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A short update. I've just received all my documents that are needed at the labour department and I'll submit them today.

Not all dogs that bark, actually bite. It's possible to legally work on a Non-O, ME.

I'm more than happy that I'm completely independent on my visa and I see it as a little victory.

No matter if I don't pass the probational period, or even when they might lose their contract,
I'm good and that's exactly how I wanted it to be.

One member wrote a post about guys on Non-O's who are employed as assistants, or similar. I don't see the reason why they can't be employed as teachers?

All I need now is a good online teaching job. Should anybody have a good address, please feel free to drop me a message. Thanks a lot. Khop Khun Lai Lai. ( as we say here)-wai






Hey_ewe

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Sirchai wrote:
A short update. I've just received all my documents that are needed at the labour department and I'll submit them today.

      Not all dogs that bark, actually bite. It's possible to legally work on a Non-O, ME.

         I'm more than happy that I'm completely independent on my visa and I see it as a little victory.

         No matter if I don't pass the probational period, or even when they might lose their contract,
           I'm good and that's exactly how I wanted it to be.

       One member wrote a post about guys on Non-O's who are employed as assistants, or similar. I don't see the reason why they can't be employed as teachers?

         All I need now is a good online teaching job. Should anybody have a good address, please feel free to drop me a message. Thanks a lot. Khop Khun Lai Lai. ( as we say here)-wai    

           


They don't have a degree, so they can't get a teachers licence or even a waiver. I believe that a stipulation in their paperwork, is that it cannot mention teaching anywhere, even though they are doing the same job as all the other teachers. It's a bit of a loophole that a few schools are using. The people on these contracts are long standing teachers and as such the school is willing to go the extra mile to help them out. I personally would be wary of such an arrangement for fear of someone closing the loophole.


       

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"They don't have a degree, so they can't get a teachers licence or even a waiver. " - They could teach in a language school no problem or even a university, the degree is only for schools that fall under OBEC.

Hey_ewe

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Yes, that's true. I'm pretty sure they want to stay the same school and the school wants to keep them, hence the school being prepared to pull a few strings to help them out.


I have known teachers who have wanted to be on a marriage visa, purely because they don't want to have any problems if their contract isn't renewed or terminated. Normally older guys who are already here on a marriage visa and perhaps just want a year or twos work. They also don't want the bother of convert their existing marriage visa into a business visa.

Sirchai

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Hey_ewe wrote:
Sirchai wrote:
A short update. I've just received all my documents that are needed at the labour department and I'll submit them today.

      Not all dogs that bark, actually bite. It's possible to legally work on a Non-O, ME.

         I'm more than happy that I'm completely independent on my visa and I see it as a little victory.

         No matter if I don't pass the probational period, or even when they might lose their contract,
           I'm good and that's exactly how I wanted it to be.

       One member wrote a post about guys on Non-O's who are employed as assistants, or similar. I don't see the reason why they can't be employed as teachers?

         All I need now is a good online teaching job. Should anybody have a good address, please feel free to drop me a message. Thanks a lot. Khop Khun Lai Lai. ( as we say here)-wai     

           


They don't have a degree, so they can't get a teachers licence or even a waiver.  I believe that a stipulation in their paperwork, is that it cannot mention teaching anywhere, even though they are doing the same job as all the other teachers.  It's a bit of a loophole that a few schools are using.  The people on these contracts are long standing teachers and as such the school is willing to go the extra mile to help them out.  I personally would be wary of such an arrangement for fear of someone closing the loophole.  


       

 
 Thanks for your response. My apologies when my message didn't come across, I'm completely legally working on my Non-O ME and will pick up my work permit tomorrow.

  There's no fancy title mentioned, just teacher. I'm aware that especially the big schools are able to hire who they want, give them a different title and all involved, including the Immigration and labor department pull at one string.

 The bigger schools always have the power, because all the big guys' kids are usually studying there. I've just met the dad of one of my grade 11 students on my visa trip, he's an Immigration officer at Chang Sga Ngam ( Cambodia/LOS) border.

I personally don't have a problem when some expats without degrees are working for schools in the middle of nowhere. Live and let die. wai

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"I'm completely legally working on my Non-O ME and will pick up my work permit tomorrow."

To be within the law 100% you can not start work until you are in possession of the work permit.

:-)

kruhjoe

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Done.

http://www.thailandteaching.info

15 misinformation on Wed Aug 02, 2017 10:28 am

gungchang

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A damn troll wrote:"They don't have a degree, so they can't get a teachers licence or even a waiver. " - They could teach in a language school no problem or even a university, the degree is only for schools that fall under OBEC.

The OP is either confused or deliberately spreading misinformation.

In my experience, one can teach in a language school or at a university without a teaching license.

A degree is required for the WP and you aren't working legally anywhere without a degree (or a Khao San fake that nobody verifies, or perhaps a very old grandfather clause).

In the past, people had gotten away with passing off certificates of completion of professional training as a degree, but I imagine that the list of recognized universities has relegated that chicanery to the past.

Digressing for a moment, this requirement for having a degree might explain why so many teachers resisted the TCT TKT:

They had to pass the TKT to get a license before they ran out of waivers.

But, once they passed and applied for a license, KSP/TCT would require a verified degree.

Either way, they were screwed. No license, no job.  No degree, no license.

Some of these frauds may have thought that there was security in numbers, i.e., if everybody failed the tests, nobody would lose his job.  KSP can't fire everybody, right?

This led to some astounding bullshit.  Some humble examples:

Don't take the test.  They can't make everybody take it, so, don't take it.

Don't study. Don't pass.  Fail the test.  Just pay 1,000 baht twice a year forever.

Don't waste your time.  Nobody can pass all the tests.  It's a fraud to make money for KSP.

After some people realized that people had passed the tests and received licenses, they tried to do the same.  But it was too late.  The culture course was on hold, and the tests were discontinued.

Digression over.


To recap, it's a teaching license, not a degree, that isn't required at a "mall school" or a university.



Last edited by gungchang on Fri Aug 11, 2017 7:21 am; edited 3 times in total

Sirchai

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Here we go again !! I had a pretty good day, picked up my work permit this morning, then had some really stressful hours in classrooms without fans and just came back to the office, trying to relax a bit. Nope.

  Again, our sweetie who's working for the agency came by with the same stack of documents, telling me that my visa (last day 1.May.2018, but with a chance to get 90 days when leaving the country on same day) wouldn't run together with the work permit which ( expires in June 2018).

   Before I even get in touch with the HRM, please let me know where I stand. I thought that they'd scratched that a few years ago and a visa/ extension of stay, don't have to run together on the same day, right?

  Please let me know what the Immigration would do with the documents? I'd think that they "convert" it into a Non-B, right?

      I'm somehow speechless and a broken hard drive in my PC, plus a few problems with the "better half" don't make my life to a better one now.

  I really don't know what to do and thought I'm good with my Non-O? That it expires a month before the work permit can't be a problem.

  Do they really want to cause any problems, or do they just not know much about visas/extensions of stay and work permits.

  I'm so loaded with work that I don't know how to check all the worksheets and come up with a grade.

  Any insight would be deeply appreciated and wanted. Thanks a lot in advance.- thank you 2  thank you 2  thank you 2

Sirchai

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Dear members,

          Not wanting to create a new thread, I wrote two posts here because it's the same problem/issue I had in the original post.

     Could somebody please tell me if a visa. or extension of stay has to run together with the work permit's expiration date what somebody's trying to make me believe?

   I remember that it was the case many years ago, but was then changed in a way that the dates can be completely different. What bugs me most is that I'm good until May with my visa and the work permit expires in June.

     I've just picked my wp up today and can't believe that somebody wants me to change it. I'd guess into a Non-B, as I've never heard that they're using a Non-O to do so. I'm on a Non -O multiple entries from Savannakhet.

    Could anybody shed some light on this issue, please? Thanks a lot for any info:wai: .

bahn_farang

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Sirchai, with respect... why would you entrust your future and the future of your family to a web forum? You are blessed with a family which could ask, direct from the authorities in your specific location, the answers to your problems/questions. Pretty much what you will get from this or any other forum is hearsay or locale specific information. If you seek solutions to your seamlessly never ending tide of problems, may I suggest you seek from the horse's mouth first.

Sirchai

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bahn_farang wrote:Sirchai, with respect... why would you entrust your future and the future of your family to a web forum? You are blessed with a family which could ask, direct from the authorities in your specific location, the answers to your problems/questions. Pretty much what you will get from this or any other forum is hearsay or locale specific information. If you seek solutions to your seamlessly never ending tide of problems, may I suggest you seek from the horse's mouth first.


Thanks for lecturing me. I've posted it here because I thought that members might be on a Non-O ME and could give their 5 baht to it.

Once I'm at the Immigration and get to the wrong IO, I might be in a difficult situation and they could tell me that I have to convert it into a Non-B.

No disrespect, but don't you think that such a topic might help others in the future?

Please correct me if I'm wrong. Thank you very much.- wai

bahn_farang

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I look forward to hearing what the authorities say after you have asked them.

gungchang

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I would like to share my experiences from 2014 and 2015.

One "authority" said I couldn't get a WP with an O visa.
Another authority said that I could.

One authority said that my wife couldn't use her air ticket because her name on the ticket did not match the name on her passport.  Another authority said it was possible. A third person said 'no.'  I dropped the name of the one person who had said "maybe" and that triggered a chain of events that resulted in my wife boarding the plane.

The point is:  if you don't get the answer you want, persevere by asking other people.

bahn_farang

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true, by asking different authorities you may well get a different answer.

Spidey

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I am currently working on a NON O with a work permit. I have a waiver.......It wasnt hard, the school did it for me with little hassle....infact, it all seemed too easy for Thailand TIT...

And I am on a NON O because the WP not TIED TO MY VISA....a MASSIVE advantage and one that I wont give up easily!!!

And YES I have all the correct paperwork to be legal.....that has NOTHING to do with it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sirchai

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Spidey wrote:I am currently working on a NON O with a work permit. I have a waiver.......It wasnt hard, the school did it for me with little hassle....infact, it all seemed too easy for Thailand TIT...

And I am on a NON O because the WP not TIED TO MY VISA....a MASSIVE advantage and one that I wont give up easily!!!

And YES I have all the correct paperwork to be legal.....that has NOTHING to do with it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 Thanks, Spidey. I'm also working on Non-O- multiple entries got my work permit, and do not wish to have it changed into a Non-B for understandable reasons.

Would the agency I'm working for not get the second term contract, my visa/permission of stay will not automatically be canceled.

Some off topic removed. wai



Last edited by Sirchai on Mon Aug 14, 2017 2:39 pm; edited 1 time in total

Qwerty


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I have been on an O Visa (Marriage) for several years, with a work permit and a series of TL waivers (soon to be replaced with a permanent TL!). So, despite all of the nay-sayer's, it is possible.

I get my WP renewed at the beginning of every school year. Then, a few months later, I renew my Visa with copies of my marriage license, pictures of me and my wife at home, a map to the house we live in, a copy of the rental agreement and a copy of the landlady's ID, copies of my wife's ID and tabian baan, tax returns (form อพด91 I think) showing I earn in excess of 40k per month, copy of my Work Permit, copy of my TL waiver, copy of my employment contract, and many other forms that I have no doubt forgotten.

Good luck!

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